tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC May 25, 2011 5:00pm-6:00pm EDT
not going to agree with a right-wing turkish government why do we all agree with a right wing israeli government? makes no sense. >> cenk, thoughtful and provocative, as always. issues this we need a longer discussion on another time. the turk is back at 6:00 eastern. we are back tomorrow. and "hardball" starts right now. there's no saving private ryan. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris math news washington. leading off tonight, wakeup call. now we know why republican strategists convinced candidates not to support the republican plan to phase out medicare. it's a political death warrant. last night's defeat of a republican in a conservative new york state district is because of one thing, the gop plan to kill medicare. now, house republicans have some
explaining to do, squaring their votes for the kill medicare plan with a public that actually likes medicare. and right now, democrats are going to put senate republicans in the same corner, forcing them to vote up or down on ryan's plan. also it now looks as if john edwardss is facing perhaps federal indictment. he is accused of using campaign funds to cover up his extra marital affair. is he guilty or is this simply a stretch of the law? plus, diamonds are forever. newt gingrich being deep in debt to tiffany's threatens to become a killer story about character, his character. what kind of a guy ease quarter million bucks to pay diamonds -- be pay for diamonds? how is this for another mitt romney flip-flop? in 2009, romney called president obama's auto rescue maps tragic and a very bad circumstance for the country. now that they have proven a success and chrysler's paid back all of its loan, a romney spokesman says it was romney's idea to grant the loan.
does this guy realize we have videotape of what he said before? flip-flopping. that's romney's game. finally, let me finish with newt gingrich, breakfast, lunch and dinner at tiffany's. we start with the senate vote on the republican kill medicare plan and the republican defeat in the new york 26th congressional race. steve israel is a democrat from new york and chairman of the democratic congressional campaign committee and erroll lewis a host for new york one, up in new york. congressman, i thought that the democrats even came close in this race. this is jack kemp's old seat. this is jack quinn's old seat. these are republicans. this is now your party's seat. what happened up there, up near buffalo? >> first thing's happened, medicare, medicare and medicare. we said on the first day that the gavel came down on the republican plan to terminate benefits to fund tax cuts to big oil companies that we would hold them accountable. we hold them accountable every day. we hold them accountable in every district. we took that fight to new york
26 and we won and medicare won. >> now, did kathy hochul, who just won't race, she is the congresswoman-elect now, did she do what you told her to do? is this, in other words, a template, a role model, for what you could do in winning back, say 25 seats next year, 24 seats enough to get control of the house again? >> she didn't do what we told her to do she did what she wanted to do one of the reasons she got into this race is she couldn't stomach these republican plans to terminate medicare while getting tax cut to the richest oil companies. that's one reason she got in this race. from day one, she defined herself as an independent democrat who would vote against this had medicare scheme and this's why she won. and i will say one other thing, she won not by attracting just democratic votes she won independents and she got so many republican votes much and so this is a really good barometer for what's happening throughout the country. independent voters left democrats in the 2010 congressional election. we have them in 2006. we had them in 2008.
these are the bucks county democrats that you talk about so much. >> i know all about them. >> and they came back to the democrats in new york 26 and that's why we are going to continue creating this contrast. >> you're completely right. i agree with the democrats and everything. when it comes to medicaid, the moines you turn 6 5, you like medicare. i don't care hour, republican, middle of the road or not. here is representative-elect kathy hochul, she continued to on ryan's medicare plan in her victory speech. stop calling it the ryan plan. the entire congress and caucus voted for it, is their plan as a party. let's listen. >> we can balance the right way and not on the backs of our seniors. if i had my way and i hope i do we will keep the promises that we made to our seniors who spent their entire lives paying into a medicare system so it would be there when they needed it that's simple. >> erroll, i'm looking a what
the possibly could be the death rattle of the moderate republican party, the northeast, i grew up with, sway moderate party of nelson rockefeller, jack javits, pennsylvania, republicans, year after year now, they are all running for the hills, olympia snowe, susan colin, scott brown, the new guy from massachusetts, running like hell away from this thing, you only got, what four republicans in new york state you can the whole state now, you are down to three now, right? >> yeah, pretty much. to be fair about it, once you go outside of new york city it is actually roughly the same numbers you get about four or five democrats, four or five upstate republicans, although this one, of course, makes a big difference. i think the thing they also have to be very concerned about, frankly, chris is that this was a suburban district. this wasn't, you know, near buffalo but it is outside of buffalo and it runs up to the outskirts of rochester. so, this is a suburban district it is 93% white. it had a decisive republican registration advantage and a lot of independents.
this is the kind of district that they cannot afford to lose, the republicans, going into the 2012 election. they can't drop too many like this. and in a lot of ways, it is more like a midwestern seat than what people would think of as new york. >> or the jack kemp seat. jack kemp had the seat for years, a pal of mine and jack quinn, another friend of mine, they were moderate republicans by this date. congressman israel, since i got to know you, i think you are the best dccc since tony quell by the way. >> thank you. chicago again, but okay. >> your ability to speak clearly is really impressive. >> thank you. >> do all the democrats have the ability to focus on this one with issue that exposes the republican as an uncaring party that doesn't connect with real people, and i mean middle of the road people? have you gotten your other members ready to run on this next year? >> oh there's no question that democrats are democrats because of our defense of medicare, because we -- our message is that we will support medicare and we don't believe that you
cut medicare in order to fund tax cuts for big ole companies. that was kathy hochul's message and if she could win with this message in new york 26, then we can win almost any were chris - chrichris -- >> [ inaudible ] here is paul ryan on morning joe, our colleague, reacting to the news that medicare basically cost that party a seat up there, your party, the other party, rather, new york 26. l let's list-. there is a medicare story being told here and that is the president and his party decided to shamelessly distort and demagog medicare. we will see a mediscare campaign here f you can scare seniors into thinking that their current benefits are being affected that is going to have an effect that session actually what took place here it cab powerful political weapon. >> erroll it looks to me like he is going took a very narrow defense, yeah, we are out to screw medicare people but only later, not going to hit the people already retired.
you hear only current retirely? that was his best defense, only going to get them as they are coming up in the retirement, going to nail them then. >> yeah, going to have to do a little better than that people turning 55 that is really who would be affected by this stuff, there are a lot of people in their 50s, frankly, i'm not that far away from it you start thinking about where you're going to spend your retirement years, start thinking what the heck did you have money taken out of every paycheck of your adult life for -- ynch did you first work? i worked when i was 14 or 15, sure aid paper route, maybe younger, i say much younger than that i have been paying into this system at least since that age. >> exactly. exactly. >> you tale guy or woman at 55, by the way that thing you have been paying into since dawn, since you were working as a paper boy to or whatever, it doesn't count anymore, you have now got to get your border's gift certain and buy health care with it or starbucks. >> doesn't want to call it a voucher but that's pretty much what it is he is talking about. >> a gift certificate, worth about one half or one-third. congressman, you are the expert.
what percentage of an actual benefit of a premium would the ryan plan pay for? say you are 8 0 years old, trying to buy health insurance what percentage would it actually cover? >> it is going to cost you about $6,000 extra according to the nonpartisan congressional budget office. according to the republican plan, if you are earning over $1 million, you get a $100,000 tax cult, but if you're a senior citizen, you get a $6,000 medical bill and that's why voters in new york 26 and throughout the country rejected that republican plan. >> let's take a look at pawlenty here. i want to look at how the republican candidates for president are going to deal with this, they have to run from it or with t here is republican presidential candidate tim pawlenty, tim paw, when he was asked about the republican plan to kill medicare. let's listen to his interesting answer. >> would you sign on the ryan budget plan? >> i have my own plan. i applaud congressman ryan's courage to step up and put a plan on the table.
now we have a relatively newer member of congress from wisconsin leading the discussion when the president of the united states should have that leadership role. unfortunately, president obama refuses to to do it i don't believe he has court raj to do it. >> he didn't have the courage to endorse it did he, congressman? i didn't hear the former governor of minnesota endorse it i heard him say put an interesting plan on the table, that is a ten-foot pole. >> you are going to see -- they are in meltdown right now, half of them want to double down on ending medicare, half of them want to retreat, they are in disarray and going to continue to be in disarray, i just wish that they would learn the lesson of new york 26, withdraw this plan to terminate medicare, let's have an honest discussing about reforming medicare, strengthening medicare, improving medicare, but ending medicare is nonnegotiable for democrats. let me talk to erroll on. this michele bachmann, our good friend to only minnesota, got the geography wrong. he she said that lexington and concord were up in new hampshire, actually in boston,
up there i think lexington and concord maybe the new york 26, this is going to be a shot heard round the world. my thoughts. yours, please? >> the reality is there was another candidate in the race, the tea party candidate who wanted to talk about free trade. the republican party, the democrats, but definitely the republican, they have to figure out out what their priorities are going to be what their platforms are going to be and what they are going to run on with regard to free trade, with regard to entitlement, with regard to the federal debt ceiling, they have got to make up their mind this is an important piece of information to help them make up their minds, it's not going to sell every where. >> what do you make of that congressman? the tea party seems to like the republican party until they realize what they stand for. they stand for cutting programs. the tea party people like, like medicare. >> you are right. in fact the polling that came out of new york 26 showed us that independent voters and conservative voters were drawn to kathy hochul and driven to vote for democrats based on the one issue of medicare and that is why medicare has become such a galvanizing issue it cuts
across party lines and inuring to the benefit of democrats. >> tea parties say come out and cut government spending what are they talking about erroll? seemers this not talking about government spending that affects them. >> that's universal, chris. everybody wants the -- just don't cult my subsidy, don't cut my mortgage interest deduction, don't cut my student aid, don't cut what affects me. the problem with medicare is that it affects every absolutely everybody sooner or later, not the right one to start with if you really want to chop the federal budget, politically that is not the right one to start w. >> i assume this a voting issue, serves as a voting issue. congressman israel, simple question for you. you have got the job of doing that can you win back the house on this issue? >> yes, we can win back the house on this issue. we said from day one, we are going to hold them accountable we took the fight to one of the toughest republican conservative districts in america and kathy hochul won in that district. if we can win in that district, we can whip in many more.
let me give you one statistic. there are 97 congressional disvicks in the country right now that have a republican member of congress, but the districts are more moderate and have a higher democratic performance than new york 26. now, i'm not saying we can win 97 districts that would be preposterous, not even saying we can compete in all 97, i'm saying there r9 7 republican members of congress who lost sleep last night because of their medicare vote. >> i would say if you get 97 seats, you're going to be speaker of the house. thanks very much, congressman steve israel, the champion of this effort. erroll lewis. i call you earl lewis. earl will san great columnist. thank you very much. justice department plans to indict john edwardss on criminal charges possibly within days, something to do with that affair he had. he is under investigation for allegedly violating campaign laws and using campaign money to try to cover up an extra marital affair. we will get to this it is a built complicated but ain't complicated when you're in trouble. you're just in trouble. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. ♪
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florida is the biggest presidentialbattle ground state shaping up a a good poll number potentially for obama. president's new governor, rick scott is toxic. i always thought this guy was toxic. approval rating is 29%, he just got into office. imagine what it will be in three years according to a new quinnipiac poll, 29% for the new governor. you can belt the obama campaign will tie whoever wins the republican nominee for president down to governor scott in florida. this guy is not cool. we will be right back.
john edwards could be facing big trouble. the department of justice has given the okay for prosecutors to begin, or at least bring criminal charges against the former senator and presidential candidate. he has alleged to have broken campaign finance laws in covering up his affair with rielle hunter, the filming of grapher who work old his campaign. joining me is salon's editor at walsh, joan walsh and msnbc
political analyst richard wolfe. i want to understand this case before everybody jumps to a verdict here on television. and i think in fairness, we ought to take a lack at a couple of things, here is what is portrayed at nbc what could be called, you know, probative. it could suggest there was a deal here to use money coming from in this case, bunny mellon, the wealthy heiress to basically help out to keep quiet that affair. here it is the voicemail message that edwards left for campaign aide andrew young. let's listen. >> that is what looks to be trouble. here he is defending himself on night line, saying that he didn't do what he is accused of doing, at least the way he is describing with the charges. he doesn't know the charges yet. >> i've never paid a dime of
money to any of the people that are involved. i've never asked anybody to pay a dime of money. never been told that any money's been paid. nothing has been done at my request. >> so john, here's the question, and i don't like original uses of laws. i like the way they were originally used. if there's a new kind of use of the law, it better be really important. they are saying here, apparent lit prosecutors, trying to figure this out, nbc, benefiting from nbc's reporting by lisa myers. apparently saying this money given by the wealthy heiress are, bunny mellon, rachel mellon it helped them get to out of this kerfuffle, embarrassing thing that would have hurt his campaign and hurt his image, defining that as a campaign contributions, paid gift tax on it saw this as a personal gift to a guy in trouble, i have this personal problem to deal with. she didn't think it was a campaign contribution, from what i've been able to find out. is this guy criminal or not, do
you think? what's going on? >> i think this is very confusing. we are in an area of law where, you know, we just don't know whether you can say that that was knowingly -- that that really was a campaign contribution and that he knowingly used it to cover up this affair. we are just not there yet, chris, with the evidence that we have. >> you know, i wonder, your thoughts, richard, you are smart on these campaign issues what is this? is this a crime or some original prosecution here, original creative prosecution? >> i don't know that it depends on what the donor thought it was going to be used for. if a campaign -- run it through campaign accounts and they cut checks on campaign -- through campaign sources and it was spent for personal use, you don't get much more personal than trying to look after your mistress, then i don't know that he has a leg to stand on. >> well, wait a minute, let me ask you, is it a campaign contribution, it was clearly, first of all, well beyond the $5,000 allowed to give as federal money. the idea this was ever given as a campaign contribution, if the person giving the money was paying taxes on it as a personal
gift, when does it become a campaign contribution i guess is the question? >> i think that's great question, but if the campaign was spending the money as part of a coverup because he didn't want to run it through his -- >> that's not a campaign expense. that's coverup. >> that's the problem. at what point did this stuff merge? it seems, it seems early on that she was, the mistress, was wrapped into this campaign, first of all for this videography but later when it became much more personal. there was supposed to be this clear division between campaign spending and personal spending and, again, i don't think it malters about the intent of the donor and even in this case, you know, i guess the edwards defense has been he didn't order anything, didn't know what it was being used for. it seems like they have enough statements from him or e-mails or voicemails to say that he did actually know what was going on. so -- >> okay, here is question for you, richard, and then joan, a bigger question. is whoth how the federal prosecutor should be using their
time to go up to the case, looks like an original use of the law that involves a bit of a stretch that involves perhaps a failed prosecution. they are going to video have to prove that john edwardss knew he was doing it i love you, bunny and bunny good for something, they are going to pro have to prove he fingered the money and said spend it on the cover up and declared it a campaign event. they have to prove a lot of things here to win a prosecutionsome this worth federal time or going after murderers or somebody who has committed something really serious in this country, your thoughts, a judgment call? >> i think public corruption is an extremely serious offense and there needs to be a clear signal sent that it is not acceptable. you know, you could have made the same argument about valerie blame affair and people tried say that, they said no one with die and what was the harm involved here? but there is a public service -- >> federal -- federal undercover agent. >> valerie plame that is a clearer case, but i agree with
richard, we are not talking about a dinner here or there we are talking about up to $1 million in campaign money. that is real money and so, if this case can be proven, i think it's relevant. i'm not a person who thinks that people's private lives should be dragged into this, but when you start spending campaign resources to cover up -- if he did. well, you know, they are not stupid people, not going to -- i will give him the benefit of the doubt, 'cause that's -- our country has a prexrunks of innocence,ing but they are not stupid people. if they can't see some way than co-mingle with campaign funds. >> let me try this by both of you. suppose you are running for office, some embarrassment, you have had an affair with somebody, just like this case, forget all the details, this simple detail, you have had an embarrassing affair, you don't want your wife to know about it voters to know about it certainly, don't want anybody to know about it you go to somebody helping you with the campaign, by the way, i got a personal problem here, give me some money to shut this thing up, is that a violation of the law, richard and then joan? is what i described a violation of the law?
that's what they are saying it is that is the edwards' defense. >> if he got a ben factor or friend to try to deal with his mistress separately, put them up in their mansion, that's not a campaign violation. having an affair is not a crime it maybe embarrassing, it may kill your political career, but if they try to launder that money through the campaign, that's where you get into this criminal. >> you disagree with the prosecutors, the prosecutors are saying any time you diminish a negative influence on your image if you are just trying to keep quiet something that is going hurt your image is the campaign, that is a campaign expense, per same go ahead, joan. >> if what is ultimately the case they bring -- we don't know. >> that is a hell of an argument that is a hell of an argument. that's hell of an argument that's a hell of an argument. anything that makes you look better is a campaign expense, anything that stops from looking swore a campaign expense.
that is such an umbrella. >> your kid's s.a.t. tutoring could be considered a campaign -- >> or oprah endorsing you. >> i just want law to be enforced this guy's sleezy, fine, if he committed a federal felony, let's agree on that let's not confuse the two questions. every of time i see texas or some of these states involved in prosecutions, i begin to think that the u.s. attorney just wants to run for the same office he is going after, a thought. i see it too many times. thank you, joan. thank you, richard. i don't like poll lit tizization of politics. i'm sorry, illegalization of politics. up next, mitt romney flip-flopped again. he is no the trying to take credit for saving the auto industry after he prosed elected the auto industry die. boy, this guy flip-flops like the best in the circus. anyway, that's next in the sideshow. you are watching "hardball," only on msnbc.
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back to "hardball." time for the sideshow. first up, out of sync? in case you missed it, watch what happened last night during president obama's toast to queen elizabeth. >> to her majesty, the queen, to the vitality of the special relationship -- ♪ >> -- between our people and the words of shakespeare, to this blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this england. to the queen. [ "god save the queen" plays ] >> oh, she is the queen. this morning, president obama joked about the orchestra miscue with deputy prime minister nick clegg. >> i thought that it was -- [ inaudible ]
>> actually, i think the orchestra was a built off notice timing, maybe that's why the president seemed terribly hesitant with that line from shakespeare. next up, a big-time romney reversal, a good week for american automakers, wonderful news. chrysler repaid almost alls of the bailout loans, almost all of it. gm announced it would be hiring 2500 workers in the detroit area alone, headlines no one thought possible two years ago. in fact the president's auto rescue plan has been such a huge had success that even mitt romney is now trying to take credit for it his spokesman said yesterday, "mitt romney had had the idea first. you have to acknowledge that. he was advocating for a course of action that eventually the obama administration adopted." oh, really? well, romney actually came up with the idea for the president's auto plan? well, here's a reality check from the democratic national committee. >> the crisis of the auto industry, what should be done there? should the federal government bail out the auto industry?
mitt romney, former massachusetts governor and former republican candidate for president says absolutely not. >> there's no question but that if you just write a check that you are going to see these companies go out of business ultimately. you said, if general motors, ford and chrysler get the bailout their chief executive asks for yesterday, you can kiss the american automotive industry good-bye. >> if you write a check, they are going to go out of business. >> i think that's right up there with "let them eat cake". this guy can't get it straight. now, tonight's big number, think a bipartisan deal on the debt will be ease is? i think again, anti-tax fanatic rover nor quest there is a name for you, rover nor quest, pressured incoming lawmakers to never, ever raise taxes, the 287 republicans serving in congress, how many do you think have signed the nor quest pledge? 273. almost every one of them. 217 republicans in congress have their hands signed on tax increases, tonight's big number, rover nor quest, in power.
up next, newt gingrich's half-million dollar debt in divnies. newt was already off on a bad start. this is making worse. that's ahead. [ male announcer ] for fastidious librarian emily skinner, each day was fueled by thorough preparation for events to come. well somewhere along the way, emily went right on living. but you see, with the help of her raymond james financial advisor, she had planned for every eventuality. which meant she continued to have the means to live on... even at the ripe old age of 187. life well planned. see what a raymond james advisor can do for you. [ male announcer ] when you come to new york from a place like detroit, no one expects you to influence the world of fashion. but when you grew up surrounded by rock 'n' roll and heavy industry, you just might make a name for yourself.
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i'm michelle caruso cabrera with your cnbc market wrap. stocks lost altitude heading into the close but managed to eek out modest gains. the dow jones industrial average added 15 points. investors were focused on oil and gasoline supplies today. we had a sharp drop in heating oil and diesel supplies that trumped a leveling off of gasoline inventories. and then we had an updated oil services forecast from haliburton. put those together, oil prices add 1.75 to finish above $100,
$101 a barrel in fact. in stocks, martha stewart living shares soared on the news that it has partnership opportunities. netflix is talking about developing social tools for its site. aig shares tumbled after the treasury department sold off 200 million shares. still holds 77% of the insurer. that is it from cnbc. we are first in business worldwide. now, to become "hardball." > -- now, took "hardball." -- now, back to "hardball."-- n" >> all of us have wrestled with two problems house, do we maximize individual freedom and make sure people have some responsibility for their debts? >> people have some responsibility to their debts. what great call by newt gingrich. he was talking there about a health care man date but
certainly wrestled this week with the debts of a different sort. here he is once again with bob sheaver on face the nation last sunday. let's listen to this historic conversation. >> you owed between $250,000 and a half million dollars to a jewelry company. what was that about mr. speaker? >> first of all, it was about obeying the law. >> did you indeed owe a half million dollars to a jewelry company at one point? >> we'd revolving fund. >> what does that mean? >> it means that we had a revolving fund. that -- this was a -- an interest -- >> who buys a half million dollars worth of jewelry on credit? >> go talk to tiffany's. >> it's very odd to me that someone would run up a half million dollars bill at a jewelry store. >> go talk to tiffany's. >> you're running for president, you are going to be the guy in charge of the treasury department. >> no, no. >> go talk to tiffany's. ask them why they lent me the money. newt gingrich, can he scoot away from this? the front page of the "new york times," a straight news piece says he can't.
simple analysis. joined by former maryland lieutenant governor and former republican national chairman, a man i can now call my colleague, michael steele. also from mother jones, from a different point of view, i believe still you can the washington bureau chief of mother jones, david corn, both msnbc political analysts, as i said. now i want the defense. >> welcome. >> spent our lives trying to figure out politicians who they are, every once in a while, a grew queue who they are, $5,000 hair cult. who sear guy, according to his wife's financial statement, ode new york had the a line of credit, ode a quarter noll a half million dollars for jewelry. subsequent to that the "new york times" has shown the incredible jewelry doesn't add up to a half million bucks what is going on with the confession of incredible indebtedness to a jewelry company? >> i don't think a confession of incredible indebtedness, i would be more concerned about the fact that he, know, skipped out on the debt and didn't pay the debt. i mean, you know, he incurred the debt at a time when he was a
private citizen through his affairs and business, he earned an income, he spent his money. why are we having this conversation? >> let's explain this further. david corn? >> politicians spend a lot of their waking hours trying to figure out how to cut through the clutter and connect with people and get their messages out. every once in a while they do it unintentionally with a $400 haircut. remember when the first president bush seemed to be amazed at a price scan and refrigerator. these like water cooler moments, people say that tells me something about the the guy. now, you are right, he was making a lot of money at the time. he incurred this debt. but the way he has gone about explaining it, it certainly is a question that you want asked, why do -- >> answer the question. >> 'cause he didn't pay -- >> here is tiffany's -- the here is tiffany's statement to the "washington post." with the permission of speaker beginning rich, we can confirm that his account has a zero balance and that all payments were made in a timely american. so, they have an answer. they said the half million has
been covered. let me ask you why relevance here? >> yeah. >> here is relevance. the guy, it suggests to me a fast and loose lifestyle. spending this kind of money on jewelry, yes, bling. bling. >> how do you know it was just jewelry? you can buy a lot of things from tiffany other than jewelry? >> not pay for them. >> i received a little gift in the past, a little elephants. >> i have paid for it. >> paid for. it was not an outstanding debt. it was a revolving account. >> but listed as a liability on his -- lie boil the of a half million dollars. >> add tab at tiffanys that -- >> ran up. >> ran up between a quart other of a million and a half a million. >> a tab. he paid off. >> it was listed also for two years running. so to, eventually, it was -- >> paid off. >> relevant, the "new york times" headline today, all that glitters may redefine gingrich. let me tell you why the line of
argument, i will follow up on that let's take a look at the issues that matter to you, talk about medicare and your party's plan to kill it. not going to kill medicare. >> newt gingrich -- [ inaudible ] last week in the house over this bill because by the way, your house did approve it except four republican, voted to kill and remove medicare and move on. this is what you're doing here now for a living here, michael. you can run from it [ inaudible ] let's listen. >> i don't think right-wing social engineering is any more desirable than left wing social engineering. so there are things you can do to improve medicare. >> not what paul ryan is suggesting? >> i think that that is too big a jump. i made a mistake and i called paul ryan today who is a very close, personal friend and i said that the fact is that i have supported what ryan's tried do in the budget. by the way, it was not a reference to paul ryan, no reference to paul ryan in that answer. >> well, then what did you apologize to him about?
>> because it was interpreted in a way which was causing trouble, which with he doesn't need or deserve and was causing the house republicans trouble. >> so, on sunday, he disagreed with paul ryan, he knew it was a kill canner issue, proved to be a killer issue in new york 26, then said he wasn't, then monday, said i'm with ryan, tuesday, called to apologize, wednesday or thursday, he said i wasn't talking about paul ripe. this guy is skating all over the rink here. your thoughts? are you with him on sunday or monday? when are you with him? when he was against ryan or for ryan, apologizing to ryan, or saying i wasn't talking about ryan? >> no. no no i will say this the one thing that i do and i did take away from the sunday appearance, we can talk about -- >> which sunday? >> the one he said he didn't like ryan. >> newt was being consistent with what newt has been saying the last 16 years on this issue when he was speaker of the house and brought this issue up on medicare and how he talked about, you know, making an
individual option. so i think in his mind, what was answering was consistent can with what -- >> make it voluntary. here he is making his stance, people are required to by health care, here again, like a jumping bean here. er here he was in '93, '39, he was for an individual requirement. he was then for it on sunday when he was interviewed by david gregory and then he switched again on monday again. here he is. watching the sunday performances trying to keep up with him. let's listen. >> i am for people, individuals, exactly like automobile insurance, individuals, having health insurance and being required to have health insurance and i am prepared to vote for a voucher system which will give individuals on a sliding scale a government subsidy so ensure that everyone as individuals have health insurance. i have said consistently we ought to have some requirement you either have health insurance or you post a bond or in some way, you indicate that you are going to be held accountable. >> that is the individual mandate, isn't it? >> it is a variation on it.
>> do you believe in a man date? >> no. >> you do conceive you have said in the past that you did? >> heritage foundation has said they were for it at one time. >> this had guy -- you can't keep him -- michael, which time were you for him? were you for him when he was supporting the individual mandate twice or turned tail ton with schieffer there? >> my view is, first off, let me say -- >> defending him. >> no, not defending him but trying to defend anybody, they have to take care of that themselves. i think the bottom line is the ryan plan is a step to get us into the discussion about what we need to do with what is a serious problem for the country. now, as you go through this process, our presidential candidates, each of them will come out with their plan on how to deal with it. it may or may not be the ryan plan or some variation. >> would you tell a candidate for congress running this year for next year to sport ryan plan and be for phasing out medicare at the age of people above 65? >> this is not about phasing out medicare it is about reforming the system.
no. no. no. >> hold on, let me make this one point? can i just make this one point and i will be quiet. make this one point -- >> you won't, go ahead >> you are talking about eliminating medicare that is not what the ryan plan does what it does is puts in a premium support -- [ inaudible ] >> michael steele for the defense. good to have you aboard.thank you. breaking news, senate has voted tonight against the republican budget plan that ends medicare as we know it the vote was 57 against to 40 in favor. scott brown, olympia snowe, lisa murkowski and rand paul were the republicans who joined the democrats in voting against the budget plan that michael steele supports. up next, the scathing new book about sarah palin written by one of her former political aides this is going to be interesting. talk to the book's author, her former aide, frank bailey, when we return in just a minute this
is "hardball," only on msnbc. so you have five brothers. tough being the only girl. aw, there's the man of the house. who's this ? this is rufus. hey, rufus. he's actually pretty talented. you wanna see him do a trick ? ok. hey rufus. who do we love ? we love our bank. we love our bank. we love our bank. we love our bank. yes, yes. you really love your bank don't you. ally bank customers love our 24/7 customer care that allows you to talk to a real person anytime. ally. do you love your bank ? with listerine® whitening plus restoring rinse. it's the only listerine® that gets teeth two shades whiter and makes tooth enamel two times stronger. get dual-action listerine® whitening rinse. building whiter, stronger teeth.
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gubernatorial candidate to a multimillion dollar national political figure. it takes us inside a chaotic and cutthroat life up in alaska. that staffer, frank bailey, the aught over "blind alean jones to sarah palin, a memoir of ourfra >> thank you, chris. >> tell us the story house the former governor would write editors about how great she was and sign it with someone else's name? >> that stuff happened before she became governor. she would draft they glowing letters about herself and get volunteers to sign them and post them in the newspaper and make it look like they were coming from other folks. in the book we talk about all of the ways she really did everything she could to paint herself in a publicly popular way there for the alaskan public. >> did she get people to read the letters or just lend her name? what was the format here?
>> i believe they were sent to the person, and the one we actually published in the book, we didn't list the name of the person who posted it, but the letter was written by air sarah, and sent to the pen and then submitted to the newspapers. >> it's been a pleasure watching our life-long alaskan gal, sarah palin, campaign for governor these past six months. i'm impressed with her leadership skills, experience, ethics and energy, most impressed she's saying how great she is. >> i guess what we always ask is what's it really like. is sarah palin different from the glittery person that comes out with the nice hand and looks attractive, and positive, loving the masses? >> she's very good on stage. she makes a great appearance,
and that's really -- she's show business. what is she like in the back room? >> you know, in the back room, we paint a picture really of a journey. starting in 2005, she was very down to eah, very regular alaskan, regular person. i think she got that taste for power, you know, getting into the governor's office, and these -- these minor criticisms, the sleights, people would criticize her and she would have them transcribing online radio shows to try to find callers to call back if and prop up her image. she's very, very thin-skinned. we detail that specifically, a lot of times using her own words in the book. >> you must have watched that katie couric interview dozens of times. i would. what were you thinking when katie couric asks her, what do you read? i think it showed the right question, it nailed this person.
what did you hear about that? >> it was painful for me to watch in that position. i talk about it in the book where it was frustrating, because she's not dumb. she is smart. she does read. she reads a lot. >> why wouldn't she answer the question? >> that's a great question. she reads all about alaskan, you know, business and all this stuff, but when katie asked that question, my assessment is she didn't want to seem too alaskan. >> why not? >> she didn't she wanted to be bigger than that, be someone that could actually run this country, if need be. to me i thought that was a fault. just be yourself. >> she wouldn't answer "usa today" or alaskan city newspaper, she wanted to sound like she read "the economist"? is that what she was aid frayed she wouldn't look like? >> right. because she focused on alaska business, which a governor should. >> i think she made a business mistake. thanks for the book.
i'm going to read it. it's called "blind allegiance." come back again. when we return, breakfast, lunch and dinner at tiffany's for newt gingrich. 6 we're america's natural gas. and here's what we did today in homes all across america: we created the electricity that powered the alarm clocks and brewed the coffee. we heated the bathwater and gave kelly a cleaner ride to school. cooked the cube steaks and steamed the veggies. entertained dad, and mom, and a neighbor or two. kept watch on the house when they slept. and tomorrow we could do even more. we're cleaner, domestic, abundant and ready now. we're america's natural gas. the smarter power today. learn more at anga.us.
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let me finish tonight with the great way we identify with politicians. lincoln was the rail splitter, tony radios very well. fdr with that cigarette of his pointing upwards once said i come from regular people. the second, the third we've got nothing to fear, just look at me. so what does it mean when a president says he's in hock for maybe half a million to a jewelry company. he doesn't just have breakfast at tiffany's, bus lunch, supper and a midnight snack. there's something fast and loose about this behavior, don't you think? it says something about the way you spend your money. some people give up steaks, nightclubs, and clothes for a lifetime so their kids can live better. even people with money must wonder what's going on here. fast and loose, that's what it looks like, yeah. put it on the account, just get it over to my office by 6:00. the diamond necklace, the one
she said she liked the other day. how does this fit with newt? perfectly. fast and loose. last week he said he didn't like the republican plan to get rid of medicare. then they said he changed his mind. what he said on "meet the press" on tuesday he was downright apologizing for what he said. newt is like this. he attacks the president for requires people to get health insurance, then it turns out that's been his position since the early '90s, so where is this guy moored down to? is he all over the place? just get it there by 6:00, whatever she wants, just get it there by 6:00. newt gingrich is so busy saying and doing what he thinks will make us happy this minute, i agree with the "new york times" this week, this half million bill will stick. it sort of clears up exactly who he is. he'll say or do whatever that will get him through the night. he buys a lot of jewelry, buckets of it, just to ke